Here are the questions for weeks 1 - 3. Please use the comments section to post your answers. Do not make a new blog:
1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to site from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to site from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Question One: What genres do the following texts belong to?
ReplyDeleteThe texts of Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, Lord of the rings, and The Hobbit all fit into multiple genres: Fantasy, Epics, and fiction. An epic is a long poem, usually containing writings of heroic deeds and opens in media res, which is an artistic literature technique where the relation of the literature is not apparent at the beginning, yet is revealed at the climax, mid-point or conclusion of the story. The texts also fit into the genre of fantasy, as there is speak of and referral to muses, gods, dragons, masters, lords, kings and heroics that would be disbelieved in this day and age throughout all five pieces of literature thus appearing as fiction, and are written in an old English style.
i adjusted my answer for this one a little after your suggestion to me in class to elaborate, and answered the second half of the question that i did not prior:
DeleteTolkiens texts of Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, Lord of the rings, and The Hobbit although all written in an old english style, fit into their own genres. The genre of each text is as specified below.
Voluspa, is classified as a mythological text due to its reference to the starting and finishing of the world. Sybill, a prophetic woman, speaks of this, for example “There comes the dark dragon flying / flashing upward from Nidafells / on wide swift wings it soars above the earth
carrying corpses / Now she will sink down.”
Sybil also references gods “by Odins will / I will speak the ancient lore.” Referencing to Odin, the sky god.
Volsunga Saga is a saga, which is a long story about heroic achievement. ‘Sigurd answered and said, ʺFew may haveVictory by means of that same countenance of terror, for who so comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.ʺ’ Whilst Beowulf can be classified as an epic, as Tolkien draws upon the adventures of the legendary heroic figure Beowulf from the historical past of his nation. “He ruled it well, for fifty winters, grew old and wise, as warden of the land
until one began.”
Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit fall into the same catorgory as they are both fictional, which hardly bare any reference to history. They can be classified as fantasy and mythological texts. For example in the hobbit they refer to dragons “So it was that the dragon did not find them quite unprepared.” And in lord of the rings they refer to kingdoms, a mythological aspect of texts. “The king now went down the stair with Gandalf beside him.”
A good start Lauren, but note that Fantasy is a modern genre. These ancient texts are myths, creation stories etc. Modern Fantasy draws on these ancient myths and religious tales. Also, your answer is less than precise. Each of these texts is of a different genre, whereas you have lumped them in togeather. Is there a difference between an epic and a saga?
ReplyDeleteIn addition to what Lauren has added about the genres of the text of Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, Lord of the rings, and The Hobbit being fiction, epic genres. However the referral to muses, Gods, dragons, Masters, lords, kings and heroics would indicate that these texts would also be formed from the mythological genre.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting point here, Shadna. These modern texts are clearly fiction. what is not so clear is the extent to which the audience of say, Beowulf, regarded that story as fiction or literal truth. What does Saga mean?
DeleteI checked the online dictionary for the meaning of Saga and it states that Saga is a long story of heroic achievement especially a medieval prose narrative in old Norse or old Icelandic .
DeleteQuestion One
ReplyDeleteVoluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.All these texts fall under their own specific genre for example:
Voluspa (Song of the Sibyl) - Mythological Poem
The prophetess (Sibyl) has a vision of the creation and destruction of the world (MYTHOLOGICAL). Also there are elements of poetry in the text "Odin gave lifes breath, Hear my words / you holy gods' "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore"
Volsunga Saga - A saga about Heroism, the ultimate ancient hero.
"So whenas the worm crept over the pits, Sigurd thrust his sword under his left shoulder, so that it sank in up to the hilts; then up leapt Sigurd from the pit and drew the sword under his left shoulder.. etc (Page 9).
Beowulf - An Anglo Saxon Epic - Beowulf describes an Epic Hero
"Beowulf Spoke: made a formal boast for the last time: I risked my life often when i was young. Now I am old, but as king of the people i shall pursue this fight for the glory of winning, if the evil one will only abandon his earth fort and face me in the open".
Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit - Fantasy Genre as a children's genre and also has mythological elements
"Fire leaped from the dragons jaw" "Girion was lord of Dale, not king of Esgaroth"
You have nailed it here, Shadna. Good work!
Delete2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
ReplyDeleteAccording to Ong(1982), 'Written texts all have to be related somehow, directly or indirectly, to the world of sound, the natural habitat of language, to yield their meaning.'. He goes on to explain further by saying 'we can style writing a 'secondary modelling system', dependent on a prior primary system, spoken language.' (pg.9).
Voluspa, otherwise known as The Song of the Volva, a primarily oral tale recounted by a culture not influenced by the written word, thus here our primary system. In taking the song and putting it down on paper, it becomes a secondary orality. Ong(1982) describes these written words as residue (pg.11) or residual orality, meaning the reader can sense that the writings are based on oral tradition and not vice versa. The opening stanza of Voluspa is a clear indication of this where the narration is in the present tense and addressing the audience directly in first person, somewhat mimicking speech;
'Hear my words, you holy gods,
great men and humble sons of Heimdall;
by Odin’s will, I’ll speak the ancient lore,
the oldest of all that I remember.'
Specific attention paid to lines such as 'Hear my words', 'I'll speak the ancient lore", show residual orality. Also the last line in the first stanza 'the oldest of all that I remember' supports the idea that the narrator originally relied on sheer memory, hinting that this piece belongs to a primarily oral culture in history.
Yes Dulcie, you are right. There are other features too. They rhythm of the language, almost a chant, is an oral feature, as is the oracular tone.
DeleteI didn't even think about the rhythm but since you have pointed out, I do notice that it flows quite nicely. There is lots of subtle alliteration and the stanzas are kept nice and brief yet still poetic. Both of these would have helped greatly in memorising the song, which makes sense seeing as the culture had no alternative to recording stories. Very interesting, as I wouldn't normally have picked up on little signs like this before now...
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI feel myths and mythological stories play a huge part in the modern world as we refer to them for morals and valuable life lessons. They hold a siginificant place in teaching us values and morals, evident by the fact that they are still around in this day and age, and we refer back to them due to the fact they still hold relativity to present day.
ReplyDeleteBeowulf has provided a life lesson that you have to face up to your issues, like he eventually faced up to his grendel, which teaches courage and bravery, an aspect we all struggle with at points in life. We can draw on Beowulfs story for encouragement to tackle difficult tasks in our lives, which provides the texts relativity to the modern age.
The Hobbit and lord of the rings has a strong theme of loyalty and empathy. A lesson I have learnt from Frodo in lord of the rings is to always go with your gut feeling, a term that is still relevant today. Frodo didn’t know the way to go, yet knew the quest he embarked on was for him, and relied solely on his intuition whilst making important decisions.
I believe these lessons learned from old mythological texts will always be relevant due to the morals and standards, and phrases we have extracted from them and adapted to our modern world.
I like the constant theme of good vs. evil. All we really have is the choice between the two, and this is in everyday life! Sorry, no questions, just general comment from little Jack
DeleteGood answer, Lauren. Are moral values applicable across ages and cultures as you suggest? Perhaps. If you don't know it, look up the word archeypte? How would this word help you frame an answer to the question?
ReplyDeleteWhat place do old myths have in the modern world and discuss why you think any of these texts desire.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to ignore that myths have held an influential part of countless cultures; including those who had yet acquired the ability to read and write. However it is the continued popularity of myths in modern day society which suggests that they still hold an equally important purpose in todays world.
Myths can be considered important for several reasons. One of which is a resolution for our human desire to create order in our lives. Regardless of the time period, in my opinion regularity has and always will be a high priority for humans. However this need would be impossibly fulfilled if no logical reasons could be given to the unexplainable. Thus myths have created a platform so these questions no longer continued to go unanswered. We see this alot in creation myths; including Voluspa which describes the beginning, middle and end of the world as well as the tale of how Odin and his brother create the earth and “the sons of heimdallr” (humans).
On that note, Myths are also important as the divine figures have some interesting parallels to our own modern society. While the deities, beings and heros create and form a sense of something to believe in much like many of the religions we have today. What i found more interesting was that Odin, although he was considered extremely powerful, relied on a volva to help him. This reminded me very much of how reliant humans are on another for safety and assurance.
So in a world where perhaps everything is black and white and science has drawn a line between fact and fallacy. It is easy to think that myths from cultures and time periods where things were done very differently have little relevance to the world we live in. However as laura has said, although we no longer turn to super natural sources to explain things. If we look closely we can see a lot of parallels between myths and our own society as well as the similar desires we continue to have as humans.
A good general comment. More detail would have served you well. You mention one aspect, the desire to create order. Are there others? Are we, perhaps,still driven by the same desires and archetypes as the old myths, a desire not only for order but for meaning. And is science free from mythological overtones?
ReplyDelete2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
ReplyDeleteAs indicated by Ong (1982), Voluspa, or The Song of the Volva, possesses secondary orality. Ong states that 'Written texts all have to be related somehow, directly or indirectly, to the world of sound, the natural habitat of language, to yield their meanings.' (pg.8) Voluspa is a generally Oral poem, and was uninfluenced by the written word when it circulated. However, due to the action of translating the spoken poem to a written one, it converts to a secondary orality.
It is relatively easy to identify the residual features that have been converted in Voluspa, for example in the first stanza where the lines read “hear my words / you holy gods / great men and humble sons of Heimdall / by Odin’s will / I’ll speak the ancient lore / the oldest of all that I remember” indicate that the poem was formerly oral and has been accustomed to the written word, taking on the form of secondary orality and also indicates that the poem was originally spoken as he refers to speaking the ancient lore. It also identifies that the narrator of the poem was relying on his own memory of the poem in the verse “the oldest of all that I remember” which could then translate to the narrator depending on his memory of the poem, which would be expected of a culture that is primarily oral.
Good answer, Lauren. Note that the tone of the piece, the oracular form, is in itself suggestive of a formal if not ritualized oral setting, such as speeches on maraes
Delete2. . What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
ReplyDeleteVoluspa tells the story of the beginning, middle and end of the world. This is a written text. However it is loaded with residual orality. The first category that Ong (1982) advances is that orality is 'evanescent' and hence not permanent (Ong,1982: 31-32). It's existence depends on it being spoken, and once it has been spoken it can disappear. So for secondary orality to become a reality the spoken word must be converted into the written. "Secondary orality depends on writing and print for its existence," (Ong, 1982; p.14).
The second category that Ong (1982) advances is that, "orality is additive rather than subordinate," and, "aggregative rather than analytic," (Ong, 1982: 37-39). A feature with modern writing tends to be logical sentences, organised paragraphs, and grammatical structure which 'lends itself to analysis.' (Ong,1982). Secondary orality on the other hand use 'stock formulas and phrases' such as, "rosy fingered dawn," and "wily odysseus."
Another category that Ong (1982) advances it that orality is, "empathetic and participatory rather than objectively distanced," (Ong, 1982; 45-46). By this he simply means that oral cultures need to identify themselves with the world around them. They do this by maintaining a strong sense of community and are committed to subjective experience rather than objective. And example from the Voluspa text is, "hear my words, you holy gods, great men and humble sons of Heimdall." This example shows how all social ranks have been included, and reveals the participatory and inclusive native of the oral culture.
Another category that Ong (1982) advances is that of the homeostatic nature of Oral cultures. Voluspa preserves this category; "by Odin's will, I'll speak the ancient lore, the oldest of all that I remember." This quote reveals the conservative nature of the speaker, and hence the culture around him. It also shows that this is a feature of residual orality.
Finally the text itself makes reference to the fact that it is an oral text; "hear my words, you holy gods."
"I'll speak the ancient lore."
The story is designed to be heard, spread and repeated. It was not meant to be forgotten and in fact was made to be memorised, rather than written down. If it could be preserved through memory for long enough it was only natural that it would become a written text, as well as oral, and hence secondary orality.
References:
Terry, P. (Trans).(1990, 1966). Poems of the Elder Edda.Philadelphia:University of Pennsylvania Press
Ong, W. (1982) Orality and Literacy: the technologizing of the word. London: Methuen.
High quality answer, jack. Note my comment to Lauren above
DeleteDiscuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received what pleasures they offer) and how did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels?
ReplyDeleteThe pleasures that Tolkien’s fantasy stories offer readers obviously depends on the individual. What Tolkien hoped to offer I am not certain? Though when reading about his life and his passions I can from my point (one point) of view, guess what he might have desired to communicate through his works.
Perhaps Tolkien was to offer a glimpse into an under-explored world of lost words, and make relevant the things of which seem to be forgotten with time. His works today are a sort of jam, in that they subtly preserve a history and a mythology through the use of themes and word choice.
A lexicographer, working on the Oxford English Dictionary, recording and compiling words and their origins makes all the difference in Tolkien’s works. It’s easy to invent a word. More so in a fantasy, where the page is your oyster and nothing written must be bound by truth or rules. But what is different about Tolkien’s work is that these fantasy worlds he put on paper, actually are somewhat relative to history rather than just randomly coined words.
There is something exciting about discovering little links that reside in fantasy stories like Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. For instance, in the novel The Hobbit, Tolkien writes of a skin-changer that goes by the name of Beorn. In true Tolkien style, of course the name is greatly derived. The Old Norse word ‘bjorn’ meaning ‘bear’ cognates with the Old English word ‘beorn’ translating to mean ‘a warrior, a hero, a man of valour’, (A Ring of Words, Gilliver,2006). Therefore, naturally this skin-changer character takes both man and bear form in The Hobbit. What is further interesting is the small details, seemingly irrelevant to an unsuspecting reader. When the dwarves in The Hobbit arrive at Beorn’s hall in the forest Tolkien describes the setting as 'Inside on the southward hedge there were rows and rows of hives with bell-shaped tops made of straw. The noise of the giant bees flying to and fro and crawling in and out filled all the air.'. Gilliver(2006) finds it to be no coincidence that the epic hero Beowulf interprets to mean ‘bee foe’ or in simpler terms a ‘bear’. It seems both lexicography and mythology inspired these seemingly made up worlds of Tolkien’s.
The depth of meaning that has gone into Tolkiens works is a massive complexity, and no doubt would not have been a simple task. The reflections of Old England and Norse worlds in fantasies like The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings make history all the more relevant today. Perhaps this is what Tolkien intended his texts be? An everlasting gateway to worlds and languages endangered of being easily forgotten.
Hey man, very nice discussion!
DeleteI read an article by someone called Shipley for my question below. In his examination of Tolkien and his works he discussed Tolkien's language choices. Shippey believed that Tolkien didn't experiment with language, he believed that all human language was one big experiment, so he just decided to extend that experiment, and do it himself to see what happened. I think that's quite cool, do you agree with Shipley's comment?
Aldo on that note, Tolkien didn't have characters that roamed the wilderness for the hell of it, or to develop the idea of realist illusion (those are Shipley's words, not mine!) he did it to reveal that all our world views are merely an illusion and there is the bigger picture and it needs to be explored!
Sweet man thanks for the interesting read.
Jack
My bad; I mean he didn't experiment with language for the hell of it, there was purpose behind his choices!
DeleteGreat answer, Dulcie. remember that Tolkien was a linguist before he was a writer of fantasy. He loved language for its own sake, as well as to give his fantasy more credibility.
DeleteDiscuss how Tolkien's use of tradition (older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism.
ReplyDeleteWell it must be said straight away that a feature and perhaps one of the agendas of so called 'modernist' writing is that it is less readable. It caters to the cultivated few. However more on that later!
Tolkien belonged to a group commonly referred to as The Inklings. This group (which featured both Tolkien and C.S. Lewis) valued traditional literary texts, elements of fantasy and tended to hold Christian values close at heart. Now this is not a major point of difference between Tolkien and his modernist peers. However I believe that context is important.
Shipley (2000) explains that, "many critics are very ready to express their anger, to call Tolkien childish and his readers retarded, they are less ready to explain their arguments,"(Shippey, 2000, p.305) This is an interesting comment because I think it gives insight to the cultural climate that Tolkien was surrounded by. Why is it that his main critics were heavily opposed to his works? Perhaps it is due to the fact that his fiction was, "populist not elitist," (Shippey, 2000, p.308) or that, "there is a class basis to the critics reaction," (Shippey, 2000, p.309). Modernist writers and their critic peers cannot enter into the mind of Tolkien as his does not represent their cherished, cultivated, nor upper-class mind set. Tolkien was an educated and had a fierce intellect, however his mind, and hence fiction, was solely focused on the masses. This explains why his critics were so fiercely opposed to his work.
This was quite obviously a deliberate choice by Tolkien to distance himself from the 'literati.' Shippey (2000) states that, "Tolkien was determinedly hostile to the classical tradition," (p.310).
Another feature of modernist writing is their shared 'love of introspection,' (p.314) which basically tells the reader what the character is thinking. Tolkien ascribed to this technique, albeit in a narrow sense. Tolkien's approach to character introspection was heavily aligned to the much older works (Beowulf and Sir Gawain for example). In these works the readers only gain entry to the character's minds in fleeting moments. In these works, which Tolkien loved, "introspection was not admired," (p.314). In modern writing character introspection is almost a requirement.
Shippey (2000) argues that "Tolkien's approach to the ideas and devices accepted as modernist is radically different because they are on principle not literary," (p.315). Shippey (2000) goes on to explain that Tolkien applied the 'mythical method' not only because he found it enjoyable but because he literally believes the myths were true (p.315).
This leads on to the final, and perhaps most important, point of difference between Tolkien and so called 'modernist' literature. Tolkien was just as educated as the 'literati' but from a 'different school' (p.316). He believed that great fiction should be able to be read and understood by everyone, not just to intellectual few. Tolkien's work was designed and catered to be educating to the mass market. James Joyce's Ulysses on the other hand, when first printed, only produced a limited number of copies which were specifically, "designed to be sold to the wealthy and cultivated alone," (p.316).
References:
Shipley, T. (2000). J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century. London, HarperCollins.
You're onto it, Jackmaccarthy. Tolkien was a conscious pre-modernist/medievalist. Modernism, which you really need to define better than you do, fostered a more internal style of storytelling, focusing on the main character's thought and feelings. The subjective method it is sometimes called. But, trying reading LOTR! There are some long, boring passages of description in the book!
DeleteWhat place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDeleteWell I would argue that the old myths are just as important today as they were when they first emerged in their far flung places. First of all if you look at cultures stories from around the world it doesn't take long to find recurring patterns and themes. Old myths from around the world have creation stories, whereby some deity or heavenly figure creates all the world as we know it and more. This usually becomes a gift to humans and we are left to govern the world as we see fit. However if you take this in a modern sense we can look at our world as a gift, and we are here to protect it. This is not our present mind set unfortunately as we are literally pissing on everything around us. Now we are a largely secular society these days, which is fine, however I believe it is important to see everything around and take everything around you as a gift. I think a feature of the old myths is that they basically said this.
A recurring theme of Maori mythology is that of Kawanatanga. It basically describes human beings as being stewards to the world and all it's inhabitants. Stewardship is not a new theme and it is not unique to Maori society, however it is a theme that humans have largely forgotten. Modern society could reapply this idea to themselves and the world around them, we could realise that we are not here to be parasitic organisms, literally sucking the life out of our earth. We are here to protect and preserve and make our environment a vibrant place. Or at least that is my opinion.
Do you think that the creators of these myths and legends had in mind a sort of environmental consciousness? I understand that they had a high respect and spiritual connection to nature, but is it not this idea of 'human beings being stewards to the world and all it's inhabitants' that has allowed us to chop and burn as we please? I feel like although we, being witness to environmental turmoil in our day and age, lets us take something from these stories that perhaps would have been hard to conceive for societies at the time. I do like what you take from the myths, your interpretations are so relevant today with the rate the world is changing due to our rapid consumption of anything and everything!
DeleteWhat I mean by 'stewards' is a caretaker, as stewards we should be protecting our natural environment. However I don't think we are truly stewards anymore. But you're right, there is so much to learn from those old masters, they certainly knew their shit man!
DeleteQuestion 4 How did Tolkien draws on the old Norse and old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide concrete examples.
ReplyDeleteTolkien draws on lots of examples from old Norse and old English texts from Volsunga Saga from Sigurd answered," Such as thy redes are I will no-wise after them; nay, I will ride now to thy lair and take to me that great treasure of thy kin" Now hen that mighty worm was ware that he had his death wound,then he lashed out head and tail,so that all things so-ever that were before him were broken to pieces,(p. 58-59). Tolkien drew on this when Bard shoots an arrow into Smaug's armor and when Bilbo finds treasure under the mountain in Lake Town
Yes, quite right in detail. Note he also used mythological figures like Odin to base his characters on, and he used some of the motifs, like the ring itself, from more ancient stories.
DeleteOh yup quite right but where It says Volsunga saga should have been Volsungs
Delete4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
DeleteTolkien drew some ideas from Beowulf like having Grendel coming out of her lair and destroying villages with ejections of blazing fire. As well as Grendel flying around flapping her wings and having a meeting with Beowulf to fight each other until Beowulf kills her with sword to her throat. That is what happens with Smaug he comes out of lair and destroys villages as he is outraged that the Dwarves and Bilbo have stolen treasure so now he wants everyone to suffer the consequences,(Beowulf,1999)
Whereas in the Volsunga Saga at the beginning of it a Volsung lady is in a trance singing to Odin and Tolkien must have got the idea of his characters singing tunes written down as poetry. For example where is Boromir in the poem after he tries to take the ring off Frodo and Frodo disappears in The Lord of the Rings the fellowship of the Ring. Having poems written in The Hobbit book and The Lord of the Rings the Two Towers. There are even poems written by Tolkien in The Lord of the Rings the Return of the King. (Volsunga saga 1888)
The riddle game that Gollum and Bilbo have of asking and answering riddles in Chapter 5 of the Hobbit book is based on an Ancient Anglo-Saxon game,(Farmar, 2014)
In Volsunga Saga the Character Odin is used by Tolkien for Gandalf as they are both seen as wise people with long beards and pointed black wizard hats, (Volsunga saga, 1888)
Spiders are mentioned in The Hobbit book and The Return of the King because in John Tolkien’s life apparently he got bitten by one in his childhood.(Bard-scribe 2009) He uses the name Shelob for a spider in the Return of the King because lob means spider in old English and she refers to a female. So put those two words together and you get Shelob. ( Ancalagon,2007)
He also mentions a lot of battles of war in his books because of his involvement in World War one and that he possibly wanted people to know how violent that war was by mentioning people dying in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, (Bard-scribe 2009)
DeleteHe also mentions that Frodo gets an illness from being stabbed possibly by a sword one of the ring wraiths holds when he and Sam as well as other folk on that journey try to get to Riven dale in the Lord of the Rings the fellowship of the Ring. He mentions this because he got an illness himself in World War one from being in the trenches, (Bard-scribe 2009 )
Tolkien got this idea of Sam and Frodo in The Return of the King on their way to destroy the one ring to ration the bread they eat from Tolkien having experienced life with rations himself after the First World War until the Second World War broke out,(Ott, n.d.)
The Elfish language used in the books was actually taken from Tolkien’s own dictionary of that language that he had written himself, (Tolkien Society, N. D.)
Boromir was the man of Gondor decided to go with the fellowship of the ring because he was the oldest son of Denethor 2 not Faramir as he is the youngest son. Tolkien got this idea because he had a younger brother himself and was always meant to protect his younger sibling like Boromir does with Faramir. Boromir broke the fellowship of the ring because he wanted to see what would happen if Gondor used the ring against Sauron like the saying fighting fire with fire like using the enemies weapons for good against the Sauron wanting to use it for evil deeds,(One wiki to rule them all,(N. D.)
Tolkien uses the idea of Beowulf as a half man half wolf person for Beorn as a half man half bear creature in The Hobbit book. They also share the first three letters of their names. Their ripping and tearing techniques are very similar, (Ancalagon,2007).
Smaug’s names are Smaug the magnificent and Smaug the Golden names used to describe people who are considered magnificent and important as well as golden.
Tolkien takes the word Nazg which means ring in Gaelic and Nazg means ring in Mordor black speech, (League of Legends 2005).
When you add Nazg to the word Ghoul which is an ugly looking creature it forms the word Nazghoul. This word is spelt Nazgul, (League of Legends 2005).
Tolkien used the idea of the Misty Mountains from Norse legends and the legends refer to them as full of dangers and hidden in the half -darkness,(League of Legends 2005).
He got the idea of a land named Rohan because of a family in France who were wealthy, (League of legends 2005).
The name Sauron means lord of the black land in Norse language and it also means abominable and detestable. When Tolkien was writing the Lord of the Rings trilogy his name was Thu, (League of legends 2005.)
Saruman means white wizard and Searu meaning tricky cunning, (League of Legends 2005).
Gandalf means Sorcerer elf. The name came out of an old Norse Poem. (League of legends 2005).
He may have got the idea of a lord of the rings as Sauron from his middle name being Ronald and being the ruler of what his younger brother did or did not do maybe.
Frodo comes from the word Frodi who is a Norse king. (League of legends 2005).
Aragorn also known as Strider also known as Trotter and lastly king of Gondor in the Return of the King book. He started off as a Hobbit named Trotter. (League of legends 2005).
The Shire is a very ancient word has its own unique reception and has its own region or district,( answers,n.d.)
Tolkien may have got the idea of talking birds in The Hobbit book and talking trees in the Fellowship of the ring and the Return of the King from the books about Winnie the Pooh and his friends talking to each other in the book series.(just-pooh.com, n.d.)
John could have got the idea of giants in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Trilogy books from
from Voluspa Song of the Volsungs as the priestess was mentioning giants were on land before humans were even created. (Voluspa.n.d.)
DeleteJohn could have got the idea of how Gollum pronounces words ending in the letter “s’’ from the musical Singing in the Rain’s song called Moses Supposes.(G, Kelly, n.d.),and (Singing in the Rain original soundtrack, n.d.)
Smeagol also known as Gollum, he got that name because of the racket he makes when he is clearing his throat. Gollum means speechless from Tolkien’s onomatopoeic name for him,(What is his real name,2004)
Ring bearers are people who possess the one ring before it was destroyed in Mordor,(2015,One ring)
Tolkien might have got the idea of killing Smaug with an arrow from Sigurd killing Fafnir the worm dragon with a sword in (Volsunga Saga, 1888). And ( Ancalagon,2007).
Ronald possibly got the idea of a sword being broken in battle, (Rawlins,2000) and the idea of making a trilogy and a prelude from Wagner’s Ring Cycle. As well as the ring belonging to Fafnir who transform from a giant into a dragon just like Smeagol transforms into Gollum(Shmoop, n. d.) and Wotan gives up the ring just like Isildur/Sauron lose the ring in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, (About entertainment, N. D.).
References
DeleteAbout entertainment, (n. d.). Richard Wagner-the ring cycle. Retrieved from http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/opera/a/aatheringcycle.htm
Ancalagon, (2007). Tolkien and Beowulf. Retrieved from http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/papers/Ancalagon/TolkienandBeowulf.htm
Answers,(n.d.). Where does the shire come from? Retrieved from http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_does_the_shire_come_from
Bard-scribe, (2009). Interesting and little known facts about J.R.R.Tolkien http://bardscribe.hubpages.com/hub/Interesting-and-Little-Known-Facts-about-JRR-Tolkien
Heaney, S. (1999) (trans). Beowulf: a new translation. London: Penguin
Complex music, (n. d.)Singing in the Rain Original Soundtrack. Retrieved from http://www.allmusic.com/album/singin-in-the-rain-original-soundtrack-mw0000225412
Farmar,K (2014). The Riddles of the Hobbit by Adam Roberts. Retrieved from http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2014/01/the_riddles_of_.shtml
Fun Trivia, (2004). What is Gollum’s real name, and why is he called “Gollum”? Retrieved from http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question42971.html
Heaney, S. (1999) (trans). Beowulf: a new translation. London: Penguin
Just-pooh.com, (n.d.). Characters from Winnie the Pooh. Retrieved from http://www.just-pooh.com/100acre.html
Lyrics mode, (n.d.). Gene Kelly Moses Supposes. Retrieved from http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/g/gene_kelly/moses_supposes.html
Morris, W. and Magnussun, E. (Trans.) (1888). The Story of the Volsungs (Volsunga Saga). London: Walter Scott Press Heroic saga;
One wiki to rule them all, (N. D.). Boromir. Retrieved from http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Boromir
Ott, (n. d.). JRR Tolkien and WW1. Retrieved from http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/040102_02.html
Rawlins.E,(2000).The story. Retrieved from http://www.well.com/user/woodman/singthing/ring/story.html
Shmoop, (n. d.). Gollum(Smeagol). Retrieved from http://www.shmoop.com/fellowship-of-ring/gollum-smeagol.html
Terry, P. (Trans).(1990, 1966). Extract 1.a Voluspa the Song of the Volsungs Poems of the Elder Edda. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press
Tolkienforum.com, (2005). League of legends. Retrieved from http://www.thetolkienforum.com/index.php?threads/the-origin-of-tolkiens-lotr-names.17958/
Tolkien Society,(n.d.). Biography Who was Tolkien? Retrieved from http://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/
Wikipedia, (2015). One ring. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Ring
Tolkien also took the character's name Thor in Volsunga Saga possibly and used it to create Thrain, Thorin and Denethor.
DeleteIt was Voluspa in the Volsunga saga.
DeleteTerry, P. (trans). (1990, 1966). Poems of the Elder Edda.
DeletePhiladelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press
Terry, P. (Trans).(1990, 1966). Extract 3 Voluspa the Song of the Volsungs Poems of the Elder Edda. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press
Sorry about this Mike and everyone else I forgot to mention one example which was Tolkien used the Norse term Wargs that meant wolf/ulfr which were evil wolves.
Delete(Shippey, n. d.)
DeleteShippey,T,(n. d.). Tom Shippey. Retrieved from http://legacy.owensboro.kctcs.edu/crunyon/Tolkien/hobbit/wargs.htm
DeleteTolkien may have got the idea of inventing hobbits from putting words hobgoblin and goblin together to make hobbits into his hobbit book and the Lord of the rings trilogy. He may have put goblins in his Lord of the Rings trilogy and the hobbit book from these two books, (Atkinson,1891) and ,(Edwards,1974)
DeleteReferences.
DeleteAtkinson,J,C,(1891).The Hob and other matters...In: forty years.London England, Moorland Parish MacMillan
Edwards,G,M,(1974)..Hobgoblin and sweet puck:fairy names and natures.London England Geoffrey Bles
These were just two other examples I found that I thought I should mention with the in-text citations and references because I forgot to mention them before.
DeleteQuestion 6: What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDeleteOld myths emerge from Norse mythology in which these myths consist of a universe in which gods and giants ravage in an infinite conflict destined to end in the destruction of the world. Which indicates how old myths have existed through centuries and exists in modern times through popular culture of films, documentaries and books. Old myths are still being illustrated and narrated to make ultimate blockbuster movies (The Lord of the rings, The Hobbit, Thor, Hercules etc), These films and books are a testament to how old myths are being depicted in modern world popular culture. In the earliest recorded Norse mythologies such as Volsunga saga, who slays a dragon, then faces his destiny at the fortune of a sleeping beauty and Beowulf, from Beowulf, who triumph over the forces of evil and chaos by slaying a monster and concludes that he was also destined to be an epic hero, which indicates that an occurring theme in Norse mythology was the story of the ultimate hero who cheats death and conquers all his enemies. This is the assurance that old myths has a place in modern world and continues to influence popular culture .
As central incident that occurs in several of the stories, I want to discuss the way people introduce themselves in each text. Introductions are a rather mundane part of life, but they do say a lot about a person and culture from which they come. For example, in Maori society people start talking about themselves by saying where they are from. In the USA people will usually say their occupation almost as readily as they provide their family name. And still others sometimes talk about their accomplishments. Introductions still provide a lot of insight into characters.
ReplyDeleteAlthough she is the orator for the Voluspa and not necessarily a character in saga, the Volva who tells the tale does introduce herself at the very beginning. She says, “Hear my words, you holy gods, / great men and humble sons of Heimdall; / by Odin’s will, I’ll speak the ancient lore / the oldest of all that I remember.” She acknowledges who she is speaking to first, like many people would when inviting someone to listen to a speech and then she talks about herself. She says, “I remember the giants of ages past.” And she says “I know how nine roots form nine worlds.” Her introduction, while not about herself, does show her own importance. The Volva could have simply started telling her tale, but she makes the point to say I. I remember, I know. The consciousness of self when telling a saga shows a sense of being connected to the story. She is a part of the mythology just like Odin or Thor. Her words could show a sense of of pride to them in the way she boasts that she remembers secrets from times no one else knows and she can see the future. In a society where individuality is not a premium, she would not have started her tale by saying “Hear my words.”
Similarly, in Beowulf, Beowulf shows a great sense of self when he talks. He even boasts of his past deeds and accomplishments before going off to face a dragon. Beowulf says, “I risked my life / often when I was young. Now I am old, / but as king of the people I shall pursue this fight / for the glory of winning, if the evil one will only / abandon his earth-fort and face me in the open.” Unlike in the Volva’s tale, Beowulf only speaks of himself when he talks, but they both acknowledged their own feats.
More so than either Beowulf or the Volva, Bilbo Baggins completely introduces himself by stating his deeds rather than his name when facing his own dragon in The Hobbit. When Bilbo talks to Smaug, he speaks in riddles. He believes that giving another your name gives them power so he describes himself through the things he has done. One of his boasts is that, "I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider." Although his boasts are true, they do make him sound rather prideful like Beowulf does. Some cultures disdain speaking of one’s accomplishments so forthrightly. However, he does start his riddles by saying “I come from under the hill,” and continues later by saying “ I came from the end of a bag,” both referring to where he is from. Although he is now a rather adventurous little hobbit, Bilbo still places great importance on where he is from. Home is central part of Bilbo’s life and his introduction shows that. However, in the rest of the book Bilbo usually just introduces himself as Bilbo Baggins.
When talking to still another dragon, Sigurd in the Volsunga Saga also believes it’s ill-advised to give such a monster your name. He first says, ʺUnknown to men is my kin. I am called a noble beast: neither father have I nor mother, and all alone have I fared hither.ʺ The fact that he is lying is not the only thing that differs between his introduction and Bilbo’s: Sigurd talks about his family. Although it was very common for people to introduce themselves by saying who their father was, neither the Volva, Bilbo, or Beowulf did so. Sigurd does not talk about his deeds, he lies about his family first. After questioning, Sigurd tells the truths and proclaims that ʺSigurd am I called, and my father was Sigmund.ʺ When introducing myself I usually do not use my last name in my introduction, but Sigurd makes a point to acknowledge his sire. Hereditary is important to his culture.
DeleteTaking it even further and away from personal accomplishments, in The Lord of the Rings Aragorn states his bloodline when introducing himself to important people. Granted, he is the descendant of kings, but does saying he is the heir of long dead kings really get him anywhere? Why does he not talk about his deeds like Bilbo or Beowulf does? Beowulf did not need to explain why he was king by pointing out his ancestors, but it is important for Aragorn. When standing outside the doors of another king’s hall, he says, “It is not clear to me that the will of Theoden son of Thengel, even though he be lord of the Mark, should prevail over the will of Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elendil’s heir of Gondor.” So he admits that he is in someone else’s domain, but he expects his heritage to matter. Nowadays people will often introduce themselves with their last name, but not everyone will say just who all their important ancestors are. Unless they are boasting. It’s a difference in culture and times.
Sorry, it wouldn't all fit together...
Excellent point, Tasha. Their role as storytellers was firmly established in their culture. There social role seems to border on that of wise woman or man, sibyl or oracle.The seer of the tribe.
Delete